6l80 vs 10l80 transmission

Team ATF builder Super Dave doing his magic on assembling the First 10L80 transmission ATFSpeed has had come thru the shop. Maximum shift speed is 6500 RPM. Do you thing the 10L80 can be beefed up using 10L90 parts? Shift stabilization is achieved through these and similar strategies. A typical scene thats now playing out in transmission shops across the country goes something like this: A late-model, full-size truck or SUV is dropped off to get the transmission checked out. Joined Feb 11, 2007 Messages 11 Location . this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". DT-51190 Transmission Oil Fill Adapter Tool Alt - Freedom Racing Tool lbs., with a respectable GVW of 15,000 lbs. I am currently planning on a high compression LS2 and a progressive nitrous kit but before another 4L80E goes in there is a 6,8, or 10 speed not an option? The complaints may be difficult to duplicate. The GM 10L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is one such hybrid component that General Motors jointly developed with, wait for it, the Ford Motor Company! The small 10-speed gear steps allow the engine speed to drop to lower values than it would in the 6-speed transmission, providing for the best fuel economy. I have a 700 R4 trani with a dash mounted after market switch to engage or disengage my lock up.The trani has a 2500 stall & is behind a old school 383 stroker engine with 388 hp at the motor with a 3.73 Rr gear. The 6L80 / 6L90 TEHCM is located inside of the transmission on the 6L80 / 6L90 valve body. Even though it has two more gears, creative packaging allows the 10L80 transmission to be no bigger or heavier than an 8L90 or 6L90. Note, all models will have a warmer. 10 Speed 10L80 Transmission Build! ATFSpeed - YouTube LT1 & LT4 engines - Bowler Transmissions GM 6L80 transmission - Wikipedia Copyright 2006-2020 GEARS Magazine. Lots of good information I do have one question That no one seems to be able to give a good answer to. We had to use a spacer from Advanced Adapters but otherwise they are the same. It features a dry weight of ~195 lbs. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. The GM transmission is the 10L80, which is available in several models as well. Tenth 0.64 $499.00. and the maximum output torque is 664 ft. lbs. In the TMBX, the damper is on the transmission side of the clutch piston, and in the JMBX, the damper is located on the engine side of the piston. I have a 2wd 2000 regular cab stepside bed Silverado that used to make closer to 600-650 wheel horsepower with the D1-SC Procharger and 4L80E. What is a good torque converter today for a 4.3 high output 4 wheel drive Blazer? Reactions: me32. With 10 forward gears to choose from, the 10L80 transmission is able to reduce the fuel consumption of a high horsepower engine. There are five main inputs the vehicle uses for transmission shift strategy, they are: The Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle must be performed after any of the following procedures are performed: Perform the adaptive learning drive cycle on a level road surface as follows: After the final step, place the vehicle in park and cycle the ignition key off. Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 6L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly. Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. So whats the most common failure thats seen time and again with these? Seems like the 6 speed auto would be better for the torque curve. Nov 26 . GM was still using their trustworthy 4L80E transmissions for heavier duty use, which was essentially a 1960's technologyTH400with added 1990's overdrive and electronic controls. Solution This 10L80 transmission problem could be the result of a failed oil cooler line fitting retaining bolt. Indirectly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling. The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. Tap-2000 | 6l80e/6l90e Tap Shifter Kit or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. 6L80E / 6L90E 4-5-6 Clutch. This is both a return to and a departure from previous automotive control systems in the industry in that earlier electronic transmissions used a separate control module, later to be integrated into the Engine Control Modules which were thus termed Powertrain Control Modules. To view our 2020 replacement transmission pricing guide, click here. Drive the vehicle until the engine and transmission reach normal operating temperature. In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max throttle, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for the best performance. What is your recomendation for towing? In doing this, we evaluated another GM unit the 4L60-E TMBX to see if we could pick up any clues. The 6L80 began manufacture in 2005 for release in 2006 model year GM vehicles, persisting until at least 2016 in both 6L80 and 6L90 versions. Sticking valves and sticking CIDAS solenoids are becoming more common concerns with these units. LS Swap Automatic Transmission Guide - Chevy Hardcore The 8L90E is an 8 speed automatic transmission developed by General Motors and introduced for the 2015 Model year. Problem Owners may experience an ATF leak coming from under the vehicle. The same shift strategy that is used for the upshift may be applied during a downshift. Since buying the car I have been trying to learn a bit about the auto trans. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. 3-Bolt Adapter Flange Yoke Kit. Chevrolet, Buick & GM Engines into the Jeep Ford 1.8L - 2.5L "Pinto" Engines into the Jeep 4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants). We pride ourselves in staying at the forefront of our industry, technology, research & development and our commitment to you, our customer. In fact, there are absolutely no cast-iron components, including the 10L80 stator support. Why is that? 6L80/90E Swap FAQS | Chevy Trailblazer SS Forum Helping transmission shops achievesuccessful and profitable operation. Copyright 2023 - Transmission Repair Cost Guide. Your email address will not be published. First, check for updated programming for the TCM strategy. GM has been useless to say the least, and waited me out (now off warranty). This pan fits the GM 6L90, 6L90E transmission, typically found on these vehicles: . Foremost on the list is the Sonnax clutch apply kit. But its interesting to note that there is a very low cover/piston failure rate for the 4L60-E TMBX converter. The HydraMatic can be adapted to the popular Jeep transfer cases, including the: Essentially all factory GM 4wd applications available with an OEM configured 6L80 have adapters and transfer cases that are prohibitively long for a Jeep, and transfer cases whose sizes and gearing fall short of desirable for most Jeep applications. Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series, - Shift pointers: A 4T65-E that wants to move in Park and Neutral, Being tuned in: The value of transmission tuning, Ford harsh downshifts: 6R75 2-1, 10R60 7-6, Announcing the winners of the Top 20 Products and Tools contest, Diagnosing an unusual problem: A slow-to-respond solenoid, Video: Lubegard Limited Slip Supplement overview, Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes, How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission, Solving electronic control problems in todays automatic transmissions, Sonnax highlights 10L/10R solenoid stabilization retainer, 9T clip insert, GFX adds new pump for vintage Powerglide models, Searching for the source of an unexpected transmission fluid leak, Transmission slipping in fifth gear: An elusive cause of a common problem, 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System. The 10L90 and 10L80 10 Speed Automatic Transmissions are on exchange through GM PQC as part of our ongoing quality improvement efforts to assist Engineering with product concern identification effective on 02/13/16. RPO Code MF6 The Great Chevy Auto Trans Interchange Guide - Street Muscle Because of this, the 6L80 - despite having two or three more gears than its predecessors, is unexpectedly short in length. With a dry weight of approximately 230 lbs, its also very light considering the complexity. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. It's meant to be used with rear-wheel drive and it requires 8.4 quarts of fluid. For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. So you would need to begin with a 2008 or newer Express to be able to convert from a 4L80 to a 6L80 / 6L90. Change Your Address, Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gears Magazine. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. The Novak Guide to the GM 6L80 Automatic Transmission The 6L80Es gear rations are as follows: There are two super easy ways to tell whether or not the transmission is a 6L80E. Lets talk about some of the concerns and fixes we have been seeing. I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. Thank you. This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. The high pressure oil pump inside this transmission is incredibly complicated for no visible reason. Learn how your comment data is processed. Customers' pictures and movies from drag racing competitions. In any event, precise coordinate measuring (CMM scans) of a variety of JMBX covers shows that the covers are wavy and have undulations on the clutch surface, especially opposite of the welded cover pads. When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). Heres what we mean: Lets assume we have a TH-400 trans in our Chevelle with a 4.10:1 rear gear. See how the ratios have swapped places? In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E * 10L90E TRANSMISSION. The new 10-speed combo is 4.70 x 2.85 = 13.39:1. If you know the RPO code for the transmission you are golden. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. But in the 6L80 JMBX, we started to look very closely at the converter itself to see if we could determine a root cause. Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. The 10L80 transmission is a 10-speed longitudinal automatic transmission that was designed to operate near the efficiency of a CVT while improving fuel economy in GM high-horsepower vehicles highlighted by the Camaro, Suburban, Tahoe, and Escalade. Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. You also asked about GM's new 6L80E. Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 It is a heavy-duty version of the 6L80 six-speed automatic, with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total, and a strengthened output gearset, that uses wider gears than the 6L80. The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. Why the thin woven carbon clutch doesnt typically fail in the 4L60-E TMBX. But once he had the parts and the job was complete, the noise issue was resolved, confirming the cause to be the idler gear spinning around the ball bearings outer race. The 4L80 features a 310 mm torque converter. Comparing the two cross sections, you also quickly see that the orientation of the spring dampers is different. The 6L80 would have big shoes to fill, with legendary predecessors like the TH400, 4L80E and 4L60E transmissions. It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. All this is handled with application of planetary ratios. This is the abridged version of my problem. For the most part, this transmission has been phased out by the 8L90E already, but is still in prodution. Every modern GM vehicle has one of these sheets in its glove compartment. 8L80E Tested: 2023 BMW M4 CSL Is a Track Monster. It has factory size tires 275/55/20. 6L80 / 6L90 TEHCM Problems & Solutions - Transmission Repair Cost Guide The 6L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is a 6 speed automatic transmission manufactured by General Motors. LS/6L80E into G Body (El Camino) - GBodyForum The TCI six-speed version has a few special additions to it. But the cause he discovered was related to the pump. The button for Tap control is on the top of the shifter, making it easy to use in both left and right hand drive vehicles. The 8L90 and 6L80 have the same size output shaft and mounting pattern. Also, Im not sure if the trans will allow converter lockup at WOT. This idler gear and ball bearing assembly is mounted to the stator shaft support housing. This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. Here's Why The 10R80 Is The Best 10 Speed Transmission - HotCars Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. This is an immediate DTC that effects emissions. Thats pretty much all thats to it. Thx GM 10L80: A new kind of pump noise - Transmission Digest How quickly time passes by. Powerglide (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), TH350 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), TH400 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP), TH200-4R (bellhousing pattern - BOP, Fit-all), TH700-R4 /4L60 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet). That year, for the first time, the 10R80 ten-speed transmission was available with the 2.7-liter EcoBoost V6, 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6, or 5.0-liter Coyote V8 engine options and was even an option with their popular Raptor model. A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. 10l80 transmission for sale | eBay They all look really similar, so make sure that you bother to count the pan gasket bolts, especially if you have an untrained eye. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. Bowler Transmission Cooler Manifold for GM 6, 8, & 10 speed automatic TSB 18-NA-026 Transmission fluid leak The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. The 4L60E was the first generation of transmission to work with a Gen III Vortec or LS motor. General 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter Nothing but problems with it big clunks, engine revs up before grabbing a gear. Check out delicious pictures and movies from Peter Mrup, Dennis Andersson and Svein Pedersen. Case 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Wait 3-5 minutes before driving. If the transmission fluid is discolored or has evidence of debris in the fluid, it would be recommended to replace the torque converter and flush the system to complete this repair. Also since the transmission is different the gearing and tuning are naturally different. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle starts from a complete stop. If the power circuit to the transmission solenoids fails open, then all solenoids are failed electrically off. The original first three gear ratios are in fact still the same as the TH-400. Please help>> I have a 2013 GMC yukon. PATC Sells GM 6L80E Transmissions, Torque Converters and Parts Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. This allows him to see what kinds of issues some of these transmissions come back to the dealer with while under warranty. Internally they are very different but at least with the 8l90 you do not need to completely disassemble the transmission to convert to 4wd from 2wd. RATIOS 4.70, 2.99, 2.15, 1.80, 1.52, 1.28, 1.00, .85, .69, .64. The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. Jeff Smith: The TCI six-speed automatic is indeed a revamped or upgraded 4L80E. These concerns may be caused by a sticking TCC Regulator Valve (Figure 5). 6L80, 6L90 Transmissions: Consider an Updated Converter in - Sonnax During the inspection of the transmission, Brain noticed that the idler gear could be easily lifted off of the bearing with just the use of his fingers (see figures 2 and 3). Related Articles ATI introduces new e-clutch hub for ZF8HP51 Sonnax adds new stator support bushing for Ford 6F35 Alto adds to intermediate clutch PowerPack line for GM transmissions According to Sonnax, the heavy OE LFS, GFX announced a new pump component for GM Powerglide models, covering several vintage model years: 1950 through 1973. As the transmission approaches normal operating temperature, reverse movement is non-existent. Retiring Early The Transmission Industry Has Been a Dream Come True, A two-piece valve body with eight solenoids. 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions, https://www.delphi.com/dynamic-skip-fire-1. All Rights Reserved. GM 10L80: A new kind of pump noise. But tall highway gearing arent the only way that this transmission maximizes efficiency. The 6L80 transmission pan is similar in shape but the 6L80 is shorter at 17 1/2 inches. all that is needed is a Throttle position signal and Engine RPM. They dealership gave Brian their opinion of what was making the noise. AM-DT-51190 threads into that port and connects to the J-45096 TransFlow. I & II Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. The source of the contamination, however, is not readily apparent. The overall First gear ratio is deeper at 2.97:1 which means the car builder can leave a taller rear gear ratio in the rear end and still have great First gear acceleration. Im not tuned ( not yet anyway), however, if I knew then what I know today, I probably would have went for the M6. Most of the larger displacement applications will have an auxiliary oil-to-air cooler in the system as well. * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. Our theory as to why 6L80, 6L90 converters fail like they do is related to the shape and thickness of the JMBX piston. I have a 2012 Corvette Grand Sport Auto trans. 10R80 transmission swap? Most full-size trucks and SUVs with a 6L80, 6L90 use a JMBX full-size (300mm) style converter. Its been on the road for a few years, and were starting to see some common failures for this unit. It is an incredibly advanced transmission and has the technology to . Read more columns from our Shift Pointers series here. Since these are straight cut gears, they will tend to be somewhat noisy. Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. Your cooperation with this program is greatly appreciated. Did they release much info about it on the trucks? Then to create a new Second gear, the overdrive is engaged 2.97 x 0.75 = 2.23:1. * EXCELLENT FOR VEHICLES THAT ARE EQUIPPED WITH ENGINES PRODUCING UP TO 650 FT LBS OF TORQUE. Its interesting how the new 8- and 10-speed automatics have essentially turned the traditional powertrain ratio scheme 180 degrees. Commanded engine torque: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. lost energy) are reduced by only having two of the six clutches open at any time. But in order to make this work properly, they began by making the overall First gear ratio deeper. PML GM 6L90, 6L90E Deep Transmission Pan - PML YourCovers You are browsing camaro6. Grade braking and clutch line pressure (for greater holding power) are additionally great features that are activated by Tow / Haul mode on the truck platforms. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a36 spline. Also fits '05-'06 Pontiac GTO (differential side). Had transmission rebuilt (Pro).My problem is that when it gets around 35, 8L90E Specs, Performance, and Identification, TH400 Transmission Specs, ID, and Common Problems, Mazda 6 P0320: Meaning, Causes, & Diagnosis. Account. Structurally, the 8L90 is similar to the 8L45, except that it is made to handle more power and torque. As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. Based around the 4L80E (and fitting wherever a 4L80E will fit), the 6X is a true six-speed transmission that TCI rates at 850-plus horsepower. Im with you on AFM is crap. Ninth 0.69 For the 4L60-E TMBX, the pistons are .115" thick, and for the 6L80, 6L90 JMBX, the pistons are significantly thicker at .150". Now it has RPM Level 6 but if a 6L80E or 6L90E swap was introduced or even the 8 and 10 transmissions it would be a game changer. 4L80E vs 6L80E - Are two extra gears worth it? - Pro-Touring.com The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. And Sonnax doesnt even offer a forged clutch piston for the TMBX there just isnt any demand for one. It can also be found in the Lincoln Navigator. GM 6L45E 6L50E 6L80E 6L90E TCM2650 transmission controller harness 6L80E Specs + Identification | Drivetrain Resource Ford considers this to be a normal condition! Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. I'd be modding it to a FBO car with cam and converter eventually. If thats the case, the valve body will have to be replaced to correct these concerns. Thanks Jeff. Electronic challenges exist when mixing and matching the 6L80 as they must be matched to their particular engine. The TCM-2650 is compatible with the GM 6L45/50, 6L80/90 . *$3,245 does not include any Hard Part damage, Torque Converter or TCM/ECM tuning. Interestingly enough, it was not long after this that Brian received another 10L80 with the same issue to resolve. Beginning in 2010, all 2500 and 3500 Express / Savana with a 4.8L or 6.0L engine used the 6L90 transmission. This wavy nature of the clutch surface is made worse with many miles of usage. Gen V 5.3 L83 / 8L90e / Blackbox / 80series - IH8MUD Forum

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